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PERSPECTIVES ON THE PANDEMIC
EPISODE #10
JUDY MIKOVITS & ROBERT KENNEDY JR. (Part 1 of 3)

Perspectives on the Pandemic interviewed Dr. Judy Mikovits on April 16th, 2020, and again on May 15th. In her second interview, she was joined by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. We have divided the two conversations into three parts, the first two focusing on Dr. Mikovits, and the third on Mr. Kennedy. This is part one.

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Judy there's been an almost
unprecedented onslaught against do
multiple articles in the mainstream
press from the Washington Post to Forbes
have come out to attack you in the
segments of the film planned emic that
you appeared in I want to separate your
story from the film itself as the two
have been conflated I want to start just
by asking mr. Kennedy you recently wrote
the introduction to Judy's book Plague
of corruption and in that you play Stern
a long line of dissident scientists from
Rachel Carson who discovered the dangers
of DDT to Alice Stewart who found that
x-rays during pregnancy led to
carcinomas and children later on
researchers who were first scorned and
later hailed as heroes
what makes Judy a dissident in this
tradition and what is the Semmelweis
effect
let's analyze effect as a is that
dynamic a predominant medical
orthodoxies are idiot and
reaction a medical community and
particularly doctors and the and the
medical cartel in the medical community
and go immediately into a defense
posture to defend things like you know
x-raying pregnant women even long after
the establishment between that procedure
in cancers and those children is well
established the same thing happened with
solidified the same thing happened with
he's counting all which was mercury
based his power powder that was for a
hundred years
only terminated at 1950 illnesses and
children DDT was another thing that the
American Medical Association because it
had recommended DDT for the suppression
of malaria it was last a the last group
to really to be willing to back off and
say yeah there's a problem here even
when the science was well well establish
ignite Semmelweis was a Hungarian and
a doctor at a time and most well more
than half of the women who went into
hospitals we're dying for a childbirth
we're dying of peripheral fever which
was also known as birth bed fever and he
had an idea this was before Pasteur our
before germ theory before anybody knew
about germs but he had an idea from his
own anecdotal observations that the
scientists who were the doctors were the
same doctors who were performing
autopsies that they were not cleaning
their hands between the autopsies and
delivering babies and that they were
bringing some kind of toxic particle
into the birthing bones and he did an
experiment and where he got them to wash
their hands
any drop birth and fever from around 50%
mortality from around 50 percent to
around 2 percent of women who came to
the hospital when he published on that
at first he was applauded and suddenly
he was derided and ultimately he was
tricked into going into a mental
institution and apparently murdered and
the medical associations at that time
what against him with a vengeance
because a challenge there are kind of
deified position as physicians I saying
something that you are doing instead of
helping patients it's actually hurting
them and that's part of the reason that
we see this you know this enormous
reaction to any kind of criticism of
vaccines and of course you know Judy's
science was a was a devastating blow and
because what you need to discover among
many other things what judy discovered
was that there was a virus that had been
grown on mouse brain tissue and you when
you grow a vaccine when you're making
you grow them on animal tissues on on
cocker spaniels on mice on pangolins
on bats
on horses and on insects and unhuman
lung tissue from aborted fetuses
that's how vaccines are made most
vaccines or many vaccines and Judy
discovered a virus where she was
assigned to work for the look for the
cause of chronic fatigue syndrome
chronic fatigue syndrome was a
devastating illness that appeared in an
epidemic form in the 1980s and it
affected mainly women and a medical
community behaved reprehensibly a
dismiss the disease as a psychosomatic
illness it was at a time when women were
first entering the job force high
positions and corporations and the this
illness is because not biologically
equipped to handle that kind of
responsibility that was traditionally
belonged to men was a province of men
and that that's why they're getting
these psychosomatic breakdowns and what
Judy found when she actually started
studying the disease for NIH is that the
women who complain of chronic fatigue
senator men had been diagnosed 63% of
them had a virus that she was able to
find identify in an isolate it was call
the XMRV virus and that only 4% of the
control group so of healthy women had
that had that incident that virus in
their blood she published on that and
NIH and Tony pouchy who was her boss was
okay with her publishing about it
because it didn't threaten any of their
paradigms subsequently Judy learned um
work that she did and from work that
other scientists were doing it by the
way XMRV by then had already been
associated with many other diseases
leukemias and cancer there's a lot of
really bad illnesses very very strong
associations and what Judy found out was
at the source of the xmrv not in the
blood supply
was coming originally a vaccine that had
been made a polio vaccine that had been
made using mouse brain tissue and it had
it was a virus that was common in mice
and it had made the leap to human beings
through vaccination and now it was not
only in that polio vaccine it was and
hepatitis A vaccine it was in the MMR
vaccine and it had contaminated the
entire blood supply
and that was something that Tony found
she couldn't broach because it was a it
was essentially an attack on his
industry it was saying that vaccines and
NIH had blessed and anointed and part of
the approval process at FDA had urged
CDC to recommend and mandate for 74
million children annually they had made
a very very bad mistake and instead of
saving lives those vaccines were most
likely to be causing more mortality than
they were averting and that is a threat
to the entire vaccine paradigm and their
only response to that threat was that
Judy make it as had to be destroyed
I'm Judy a Mike Ovitz I graduated from
the University of Virginia with a degree
in chemistry in 1980 went directly to
the National Cancer Institute in
Frederick Maryland where I was part of
the team that that made the first immune
therapy that was interferon alpha and it
was a curative therapy for hairy cell
leukemia from there I will join the
biological response modifiers program in
1983 where I worked under the direction
of dr. Frank resetti who discovered the
first human cancer-causing retrovirus
and and in cytokines and immune therapy
there we continued to work with AIDS
patients I was part of the team that
isolated HIV from saliva and
that confirmed Nobel laureate Luc
montagnier 'he's discovery and of HIV as
a possible causative agent of AIDS from
1987 to 91 I worked on my PhD thesis
which was award-winning in 1991 it
changed the paradigm for HIV AIDS as it
said the t-cell the cell that was killed
in hiv/aids was was not the target of
therapy it was actually the monocyte
macrophage which was the orchestrator of
the immune response so the idea that you
get damaged from a distance when a virus
infects and that you can have HIV and
not get AIDS if you protect the
activation of a dormant virus keep it
from being activated after in my
postdoctoral studies I worked in another
laboratory at the National Cancer
Institute learning molecular virology
under dr. Dave der C and what we did
there was along with Johns Hopkins dr.
Stephen Balin we looked at other
mechanisms by which viruses dis regulate
them make abnormal the immune response
because it's not the virus the infection
that is deadly it's the it's the immune
response it's the overactive immune
response or in an in a susceptible
individual that leads to the damage of
the tissue and ultimately in some cases
death in 1999 I accepted the job as
director of the lab of antiviral drug
mechanisms at Fort Detrick there again
in the National Cancer Institute that
was internationally recognized
laboratory for excellence and my job
there was to build a team to look at
AIDS associated malignancies AIDS
associated cancer we made seminal
discoveries in that in treatment in
developing treatment
for aids at that time I then moved to
California in 2001 where I directed the
cancer biology program of epigenetics
pharmaceuticals in Santa Barbara
California and that was taking those
discoveries and those medicines and
everything we'd learned in the previous
25 years in applying them to the
development of drugs and diagnostics for
a aged cancer associated with the
mechanisms we've discovered what is you
Sam red when were you there and what was
your role during the time that we were
looking at retroviruses and their in in
my postdoctoral studies and their effect
on the immune system I worked with a
collaborative effort with you Samara
that's the US Army Research Institute
for infectious diseases and it's right
there at Fort Detrick literally right
across the baseball field from my
laboratory in the National Cancer
Institute so what my job was in that
collaboration was to look at the Ebola
virus these ie restrain the highly
pathogenic Ebola virus that was deadly
and my job was to teach the Ebola virus
to infect human cells without killing
them and so I or animal cells to find a
cell line to grow the virus so that we
could study it because you can't study a
virus unless it's an obligate parasite
you need to have a host it must grow in
cells so you can grow up a lot of the
virus and and and study it and study how
it causes disease that I did that I
found several cell lines that the Ebola
virus would would live in and grow quite
happily without killing them and from
there my job was to try to understand
the difference between the very
pathogenic Zaire strain and a harmless
strain of Ebola virus called Ebola virus
restin so what I did was infected
primary white blood cells fresh from a
patient an individual person an
uninfected healthy person and I'd take
those and I didn't fetch with one one
with the pathogenic strain and one with
the non-pathogenic strain and I'd
subtract the difference what was the
disease signature we were looking at
what was that immune response well what
was the flame the fire that destroyed
the tissue and caused the disease the
microvasculature the bleeding the blood
disorders what what were those signals
and so from that we developed a
signature of disease and that's critical
because I went on to do signatures of
disease for certain types of
non-hodgkin's lymphomas we would call
these categories just non-hodgkins
lymphoma and the treatment really
matters if you understand what the
dysfunction is why the cancer developed
why the lymphoma developed and and that
not necessarily having anything to do
with infection it's just a signature of
infection or disease so back to teaching
the Ebola strain to infect healthy cells
what what is gain-of-function as it
relates to virology what is that what
you were doing at that time or or was it
attenuation and what what is the
difference and can you just describe
those two concepts so what I was doing
at the time that I was teaching Ebola to
infect human cells is largely considered
to be gain-of-function studies because
normally Ebola is another virus that we
get from bats and and it doesn't infect
human cells so I'm gaining a function
because I'm trying to teach it to infect
human cells and and and so that it can
live happily in human cells so yeah
if I were doing studies to attenuate the
virus that is make it weaker which we
would do
in order to make vaccines is I was I
would continuously pass it through
another animal not necessarily a human
but another animal because the immune
system when it sees a virus and an
infection it gives you that inflammatory
response and it tries to suppress just
to stop the expression of the virus a
silent virus is not a problem to your
immune system or the host so you don't
want it to divide and replicate and
build reservoirs no doctor quickly to
gain-of-function studies can you tell us
what did Francis Collins do I believe in
2013 and then what got reversed can you
just talk about that right so a number
of I religious I'm in Wayne Hobson and
others our colleagues said you know it's
really very dangerous to do this type of
work and so they advised Francis Collins
the head of the NIH you know to
literally put a moratorium on doing any
you know a law that said it was illegal
in this country to do gain-of-function
studies to do that kind of culturing
that that I did back in 99 because it
became clear to us that the Ebola
outbreak that killed 21,000 Liberians in
2014 was almost certainly the zyre
strain with many mutations that came by
way of Fort Detrick in in the US and I
think that was they were intentionally
spread or you think that was accidental
or I think it was I think it was
accidental but that was covered up then
and this was 2014 but certainly there
were more than 300 mutations in that
Zaire strain that weren't there in you
know prior to the manipulation in the
laboratory at that time so so sorry go
ahead and tell me yes so what so there
was a recommendation you were saying so
that so so that was at the time when
when all of that happened there was a
recommendation by Francis Collins and he
made it into a federal law I believe
that said you can't do that type or fund
that type of research in the United
States because it's too dangerous the
possibility that something an agent
could be released that's far more
dangerous and cause a worldwide pandemic
could occur so when Tony foutch he
funded these studies throughout that
illegal time period that's a problem in
many ways so you're saying he continued
to do gain-of-function studies that it
was illegal he continued to fund them so
he he funded the the Wuhan researchers
in collaboration with the North Carolina
researchers I don't believe the North
Carolina researchers had a biosafety
level 4 so that work was largely done in
Wuhan but Tony Fauci funded it and then
in 2017 mysteriously the ban was lifted
and and most people didn't know about it
at the time and only learned about it
looking at this latest outbreak how
could this happen we had a law against
this so I guess now is a good time if
you could tell us what is the process by
which vaccines are manufacturers and
what in particular is
xenotransplantation is if you could just
describe that process okay so the
process at least in in the last few
decades by which vaccines are
manufactured is to take those cell lines
that you have a virus growing in whether
the tissue the animal tissue that you
grow the virus in again it can't you
can't make a lot of virus for the
purpose of making the antigen in in a
vaccine without growing up large
quantities of it and for that you need
those animal or human cell lines or in
fact Mouse cell lines we we use Pig cell
lines it really depends you know for
most of my career what I did was make
cell lines how my job is to cells don't
grow out of the
side of the body very long because that
that's a definition of cancer so we we
transform cells from primary tissue and
make it into cell lines so there's
that's where we grow viruses so
xenotransplantation is the term that we
use for any time that you put foreign
tissue in another animal or anytime you
mix foreign tissue so technically if you
do injecting animal tissue into humans
into human blood in a vaccine is
xenotransplantation also we would do
surgery where we may take a pig a or
tick valve and replace somebody with
with heart surgery with a pig valve and
in the case of HIV patients we didn't do
that research because we recognize that
a dormant virus in the pig could become
pathogenic to somebody infected with
another kind of human retroviruses or
other viruses of the same family and
cause a tremendous disease well since
you brought them up please describe what
is a retrovirus and what makes it
different from a regular virus well a
retrovirus is an RNA virus we have a
large many families of RNA viruses
influenza viruses or RNA viruses corona
viruses or RNA viruses many many RNA
viruses that means they're nucleic acid
their their genomic their blueprint is
RNA not DNA like human blueprint so an
RNA virus or a virus writes its RNA
blueprint backwards reverse transcribe
so they call it retro so you write your
RNA backwards where you make DNA and
then you take then that it has another
enzyme called integrase that literally
cuts
open the DNA in the cell that the
retrovirus infects and inserts itself so
every time that cell is replicated say
blood cells every time you need to
respond to an infection or respond to
stimulations
every day we turn over 10 to the ninth
ten billion blood cells so those get
nucleated blood cells get integrated and
you're making a factory of virus so the
corona virus or influenza viruses aren't
retroviruses in that they don't
integrate into your cells into the cells
of the host so when the cell dies the
virus can't persist essentially all
animals have retroviruses in their
genome eight percent of the the human
genome is built up of retroviruses all
animals have retroviruses but they're
crippled so that they're not expressed
so they don't cause disease in the host
what's the difference between
xenotransplantation and zone OSIS zone
OSIS is that process of an animal virus
Xue infecting another animal through a
natural evolution let's just say that
the meat isn't properly cooked
you know pork and what the meat isn't
properly cooked so you don't kill the
pathogen and you eat that and and you it
can infect you or or you cut yourself in
the case of you know some of the
theories of how HIV jumped into humans
from animals so zoonosis is just the
process of evolution of a virus from its
original species to now be able to
infect another type of animal who is
Frank Crosetti and what did he initially
discover and then what did you discover
with him so dr. Frank Crosetti
discovered the
the first family of disease-causing
retroviruses and it's called human
t-cell leukemia lymphoma virus that
family so this wasn't known in 1980 when
Bernie poised and frank resetti isolated
the viruses from people with a very
aggressive cancer called adult t-cell
leukemia Frank also discovered
interleukin 2 5:15 and tgf-beta a key
cytokine that's a master regulator of
the hematopoietic the blood stem cell so
that's that's really your entire
adaptive immune system is what Frank
Crosetti discovered and without under
without discovering these interleukins
these factors that are communication
interleukin means communicate between
white blood cells and without
understanding the the conversation
between different subsets of cells you
you can't understand why a cancer occurs
an ogre overgrowth of those T cells so
very aggressive very fast-growing cancer
a deadly cancer and it's causative
because every human who has htlv has
adult t-cell leukemia not necessarily in
the cancer cell but in their body so
somehow indirectly largely htlv
contributes to cancer and that's why
it's causative tell me what you guys
discovered and what you published in the
journal science in 2009 yeah well in in
2006 I moved from epidemics
Pharmaceuticals to build to literally
design the first neuro-immune disease
institute and that using a systems
biology approach the same one we've used
for our entire careers we were studying
the disease chronic fatigue syndrome
because people with chronic fatigue
syndrome have a lot of what we call
opportunistic in fact
things that healthy people don't get
they have a lot of immune inflammatory
sick well I they have cytokine storms
just wanna pause really quickly can you
just tell us what are cytokines and what
is a cytokine storm a Saito Saito means
cells and cytokines is just the term
that that immunologist gave to the
communicating molecules the mediators
between cells in the immune system and a
cytokine storm is a large number of
cytokines let's just say we're a number
of cytokines five to seven cytokines
that are expressed together at the same
time and they're your army to go out and
fight an invader so that when that that
disease signature that that we've been
discussing is is a cytokine storm that
when when it when a virus is pathogenic
infecting a human you get the storm if
the site if the disease if the virus is
not pathogenic there's no there's no
expression of the cytokines because your
immune system says that's harmless we
don't need to worry about that but when
when there's something the immune system
needs to target it the communicators
between the cells are cytokines so one
of the first things I did when I met the
patients as I did entire family studies
and you see a lot of cancers in the
family you see a lot of autism you see a
lot of what we call neuro immune
diseases Parkinson's Alzheimer's things
like that as you follow the family and
you look at the environment for what
toxin could have caused the disease and
then I did these kinds of signatures so
the first thing that we did when we
looked for when we form the Institute is
go to whole families of some of the
sickest people with chronic fatigue
syndrome and and we found they had a
disease signature suggestive of a
retrovirus and interestingly enough that
retrovirus had been described in in men
with
a very aggressive prostate cancers so
you remember when I was at Johns Hopkins
University my job at the lab of
antiviral drug mechanisms was look at
retroviral associated cancers in one of
those was the very aggressive the most
aggressive of prostate cancer so I knew
of that work in 2005 and so we we
essentially began the process of trying
of hiding the retroviruses from the
sickest of patients and then getting the
sequence and the diagnostics and trends
transmitting them or looking at family
members and seeing if the disease got
the same cytokine storm the same disease
signature that that work on that
transmission in the isolation of that
new family of viruses in association
with a highly associated I think there
were probably nine zeroes in front of
the one highly highly highly
statistically significant that XM RV's
we called them or that's what the group
that ice that discovered the sequences
in prostate cancer they called it zina
tropic Zeno meaning four and murine
leukemia virus related virus so there's
a mouse cancer-causing virus that's
associated now not only with prostate
cancer but when we published this paper
in science October 8 2009
now with connecting cancers to
neurological diseases which of course we
saw with hiv/aids some some patients
would get cancer some would get
neurologic disease where did you
discover the XMRV and and and what and
and tell me run me through what the
implications were well we isolated it
from patients the most severe ill with
chronic fatigue syndrome it the XMRV had
been described by derice ian Silverman
but they're not virologist and they
didn't isolate the virus so until you
isolate the virus and and you show it
can be transmitted to a
their white blood cells it's there
they're a series of things called Koch's
postulates or Hills criteria
you
so this was really a big deal a new
family of disease-causing retroviruses
that could take you know one new virus
how many old diseases was the editorial
that John coffin wrote that that
accompanied this really widely
celebrated article in in science because
how many new diseases do we now have
instant therapeutics for which everybody
mainly thought these people were you
know you're just chronic fatigue
syndrome you're just tired no this is
inflammation of the spinal cord and
brain and their brains don't work their
muscles don't work they get a lot of
infections serious diseases that now we
actually have a therapeutic target it's
huge
to do think about that as soon as that
paper came out and we were immediately
contacted by our colleagues at the
National Heart and Blood Institute heart
blood and Lung Institute at NIH and we
started day one that paper came out with
testing the blood supply's developing
tests to test the blood supply because
of course we knew from our experience
with HIV that a contaminated blood
supply was how HIV spread through
populations that we were unaware of
being susceptible to the viral infection
so the the blood supply as in those
studies in in 2011 a march 29th at the
New York Academy of Sciences I showed a
presentation to show that in fact the
blood supply was heavily contaminated up
to 10 percent and but as dr. resetti
always taught me so the minute we
started the work to identify that the
blood supply was heavily contaminated we
a company contacted us and said we have
a technology that would decontaminate it
and in fact it did so we did side by
side parallel studies all along to make
sure we had a solution when I presented
those data March 29th of 2011
but during this time in in the two years
after the paper was published a number
of other troubling disease associations
came up first many cancers chronic
lymphocytic leukemia multiple myeloma
and in these were not necessarily just
us but colleagues of ours everyone
started to study the virus and it became
clear this infection was much more
widespread than simply the three million
Americans that at that time had a
diagnosis of chronic fatigue syndrome so
you know so manaus like Alzheimer's
disease like Parkinson's disease Lou
Gehrig's disease which had long we've
long had evidence of retroviral
involvement in a number of inflammatory
what we call idiopathic diseases because
we don't understand the pathogenesis how
you know what what is associated what
causes the disease so we that work
became quite troubling because of the
cost you know that that a contaminated
blood supply is what spread this
infection through a population and then
even more troubling was one of our
colleagues published a paper in January
an opinion paper in a journal called
frontiers in microbiology in January of
2011 and and what that paper said is one
of the most widely distributed
biological products where Mouse tissues
are used are vaccines and so it is
possible that the virus stocks when
we're growing up let's just say polio
virus in cell lines or we used Mouse
tissues back in the 1930s to attenuate
the polio virus the Royal we and then
and then in the in recent decades we
used viral monkey kidney cells to make
the polio vaccine well you cannot remove
their other RNA viruses or you've
removed
your antigen so these particles as dr.
Berke out was his name are former AG
colleagues as he wrote Ben Burke out
he said one you know it is possible that
the way Mouse viruses entered the human
viral was the particles were present in
the vaccines and that's when that was
the beginning in the end of my career
who are as I knew it what would be the
implication to government agencies and
to the pharmaceutical industry if in
fact these murine and other retroviruses
were being spread through the
vaccination regimen
well the input the implication is that
the really the vaccine program should
have ended right then and when when when
we discovered this in 2011 everything
should have stopped total moratorium
until we can figure this out because our
economy couldn't afford the liability
that that a you know via a contaminated
blood supply or contaminated vaccines
because our work was never to look
directly at the vaccines we did the
blood supply work so the implications
that chronic diseases that are exploding
in our world as we know it came from
vaccines yes as doctor as Hillary
Johnson wrote in the foreword of our
first book plague a disease to affect
the economy of nations so the
implications are economically just huge
like it was you couldn't I don't think
the country could have survived that
implication especially given the fraud
in the denial so your work your work was
not about like oh this is now we now
know it's in the vaccine supply or this
is originated from vaccines correct my
work was about the blood supply and
liking in it to the AIDS epidemic and
and that was the big the big deal
because the AIDS epidemic really was the
star
the Celaeno season so in fact it's burke
outs work that makes the connection to
vaccines with XMRV and this well this
was an opinion paper it exactly so I
mean what I'm hearing is is that there
would have been this massive exposure
massive liability there would have been
a clear implication that the that that
the vaccine regimen as we knew it was
unsafe but you didn't start out what was
your what was your feeling towards
vaccination when you began this research
well from my whole life as I told you
that from the first day in 1980 for 40
years it was my the hypothesis we worked
with is that we could teach the immune
system we could educate the immune
system to prevent or treat cancer and
infectious disease if we understood how
they caused pathogenesis of how they
cause disease so that immune therapy is
is a vaccine and so I'm not at all
anti-vaccine I encouraged my siblings to
have their children get the Gardasil
vaccine because of course at that time I
had no idea I'm not in vaccine
manufacturer I didn't know about the
paper that that Bob Burke out for in in
2011 I had no idea I had no idea my work
in implicated vaccines I was worried
about the blood supply because that was
still 25 million Americans and and we
did one of the studies in the UK and it
was 4% in the control groups and that's
a lot of people that that the UK and in
the US have to compensate at the level
and give the kinds of benefits we gave
HIV infected individuals in in the 80s
and 90s and to this day so I'm I'm not
anti vaccine therapy but you know
interferon alpha
is your mitigation right now for any RNA
virus in fact we could make a safe
vaccine right now using interferon alpha
using the other drug that we developed
in what 1986 with Candace pert known as
peptide T well the FDA kept peptide T
coming from coming to the market and
what peptide T is is stopped that
receptor known as ccr5 from sticking
like velcro to the white blood cell
so for coronavirus right now we could
take interferon alpha and peptide T and
and in transiently block a receptor
called cannabinoid receptor 2 that that
doesn't dampen isn't the dimmer switch
on the immune system so if we can just
stop the flame from getting too high we
just put that in a capsule and I could
put purified virus no RNA no DNA whole
virus particles take it as a capsule
keep it away from the lungs presented
present the antigen in a natural form to
the immune system in the bone marrow and
you'd have forever and this is plug in
play every RNA virus we can present it
to the right resident stem cells where
we need it to respond where the disease
where the tissue injury that where we
want them to respond so if if our if our
work hadn't been censored and we didn't
just stop everything the day we realized
this as a matter of fact we realize this
at a July 22nd 2009 invitation-only
meeting at that the NIH held and and in
that meeting the the big oh my god was
that the lab workers were cero
converting meaning developing antibodies
and so because they were developing
antibodies it meant that all Mouse
research had to be biosafety level 3
like we worked with with a
Ivy that is the double gloves and you
protect yourself with the HEPA filtered
air flow and you autoclave you burn out
all the trash you know it's it's very
simple and in fact I used biosafety
level three measures when I was working
in the Nevada Institute be in our
Institute in Nevada because we didn't
have a biosafety level 3 facility and so
what the government did the the the
title of the chapter in our first book
plague I think it's chapter a is you
know the July 22nd invitation-only
meeting and after I finish my talk which
showed cancers and neuro immune disease
chronic fatigue syndrome and then some
childhood diseases one called
niemann-pick which is a child like
Alzheimer's so some of these diseases
that children shouldn't get today
associated with just that one virus
because we didn't realize it was a whole
family of viruses at that time the the
people at the meeting said oh my god you
know the heads of our Institute said oh
my god and I'm thinking oh thank you
they saw what I saw but it wasn't oh my
god it was oh my god we can't afford to
retrofit every Mouse facility in the
country
and make it biosafety level 3 we can't
afford to protect the lab workers and so
I got infected in 2010 many many many of
my colleagues who worked with mice when
we didn't realize that these viruses
could aerosolize so what I say in the
book is contagious cancer you know
literally I can cough on you cancer you
know and if you're susceptible enough
you develop it soon and if you're not
you develop it later or not at all or if
you use the measures that we know of
that we know protected AIDS patients
from getting disease of course you would
never get illness but what the
government did was cover it up and
refused
use the drugs to the patients so they
literally took curative therapies and
the FDA said oh that's not approve for
that you can't use that off-label and
and so many of you know friends and
colleagues are literally dead before
before 60 Judy isn't the the base
problem here what's going on in these
these labs these biosafety level 3 4
whatever labs they or or the ones that
aren't taking precautions but is it
isn't the whole issue this
xenotransplantation attenuation
gain-of-function cycling viruses through
you know the animal tissue I mean what
what what is the basis of that is that
the basis of our problem yeah
the basis of our problem is essentially
every medicine we make is using you know
Mouse tissues biological therapies
growing up in cell lines this is I would
say since the 90s my first job when I
was a natural products chemist
so I isolated chemo therapies from
plants and and I'm back to doing that
again from the cannabis plan and from
other natural plants from Chinese herbs
we're going back to natural medicine
this would just simply say we need to
stop every bit of the technologies all
the so right tuxie Mavs ma B means
monoclonal antibody you made it in a
mouse you made it in another human
tissue
we have aborted fetal tissue in these
vaccines well other human tissue in in
another human is developed gonna develop
autoimmunity so you can see so the
entire industry the pharmaceutical
industry would stop today or should have
stopped in 2011 can you just briefly
take us through the the different xeno
transfers that are going on just a quick
list including the aborted fetal cells
and if you could just go into a little
bit more depth about why the immune
system rejects
other human cell lines in these vaccines
but just you know I've heard you in
interviews just kind of bullet point how
you know the different animal tissues
that are used in different products
right so essentially every gene therapy
product the vectors that we've been
using and I'll just mention the cancer
drug everybody's it's called cart T
chimeric antigen receptor T cells and
I'm sure it was on Time magazine for a
few years
oh this curative therapy well that car T
cell therapy where we manipulate human
tissues and we take your own cancers out
and make a chimeric antigen receptor do
we change your own T cells and put it
back that's made on a murine leukemia
virus vector so that's how we get that
in which what's meereen mouse mouse so
that's made on a mouse retrovirus the
ones we discovered it's made on these
Mir Mouse virus vectors so gene
therapies would have to stop the way
we're doing them now because those are
biologics that are doing
xenotransplantation essentially every
single vaccine has at least one animal
tissue in it or another human tissue so
birds the flu vaccines are made in birds
so there's at least one retrovirus and
many other RNA viruses coronaviruses
everyone all the animals have corona
viruses just like all animals have
retroviruses so the flu vaccine that was
used in in Italy had for live influenza
live attenuated influenza viruses
including h1n1 all of which caused upper
respiratory infections and that one was
made in dog cells dog kidney cells so
you have brought in other viruses you
know potentially corona viruses here in
the United States the vaccines are made
in chicken you know we grow the the
antigens the the viruses in check
and is the idea that these viruses are
retroviruses in the host animal are are
fine for the host animal but something
happens you know they're potentially
carcinogenic or whatever they are in us
is that the idea yes so retroviruses we
have our own endogenous retroviruses and
they don't kill us and the same things
true so for instance simian immune
deficiency virus is the retrovirus that
jumped theoretically into humans causing
AIDS so that's the HIV work we did so
when you jump species a virus that's at
home in that's xeno that's in the animal
it's it's called a commensal just like
our microbiome we have so many micro
micro organisms that are we called it
good bacteria
it helps us it's at equilibrium with the
host it's no problem are the immune
system of the host has it but every time
you inspect something foreign into an
immune compromised the very young the
very old and of course people with
genetic primary immune deficiencies many
of which we don't even know because the
proteins and the immune system is so
large so it's an that's that's a simple
answer to xenotransplantation is
anything foreign put in your body from
another animal species and those do and
can cause disease and that's dr.
Rossetti's discoveries of 1983 in 1991
at the time of my PhD thesis HIV was 1
million Americans and the group act up
and others got drugs you sooner you
remember it was a similar story to what
we're seeing today oh don't use that
danger as a Z T or this or that drug you
know and and the disease continued just
like we're hearing today with Kovan 19
the the mitigation measures should have
been interferon alpha which costs you
know like 50 cents a docent for n yuca a
$600 vial could protect a thousand you
know of the elderly of the most
susceptible
so nobody never needed lockdown if you
use that an interferon alpha and then
hydroxychloroquine which we knew was
also a valuable therapy for viruses
coming from bats even in Ebola to stop
the 2014 outbreak that was used in the
doctor that got infected
what are corona viruses and then why do
you think this is a SARS Co v2 plus xmrv
what what makes you think that in terms
of the presentation of the illness
well corona viruses are RNA viruses and
they have as we know an envelope that
you protect the nucleic acid by building
a fatty acid protein envelope around it
it looks like that little particle forms
so the RNA is the blueprint of the virus
and as I mentioned retroviruses are a
different blueprint and RNA DNA
blueprint just subtly difference but
they're also envelope viruses so when
you look when you do a test for
polymerase chain reaction what you're
doing is you're taking a small piece
let's just say 10% of the blueprint 150
base pairs out of 8,000 and you're
amplifying it artificially in the lab
and and making millions of copies out of
that one copy and then you call it a
positive and so as you know the PCR
tests that are being done now you do a
nasal swab or a throat swab and scrape
the tissue this cells that the virus
would infect the epithelial cells out of
the nasal passages that's where corona
viruses live when you do that it doesn't
say an infectious virus at all it just
says a piece of RNA that in order to see
it you had you had to amplify a zillion
times in in that quick short time period
of the test so that the the serology
testing actually says you've been
infected because the virus got in your
blood you didn't have the the
degradation the machinery in your nose
and you were susceptible and you did
because of other infections you you
actually got
an infection that your immune system
couldn't handle and you made an antibody
and that's that's the principle of all
vaccines you give them the antigen in a
low dose and they make an immune
response to it an antibody and then the
next time they see the pathogen they
don't have to go through that two-day
process of make the antibodies and the
virus can't build enough of a reservoir
so you're immediately giving the
antibody the next time it sees the it
sees the pathogen you don't get as sick
or maybe you don't get sick at all so
that is a vaccine strategy and that's
why I said the people that have the
antibodies are already immune they don't
need to worry about a vaccine let me
yeah let me just ask you that they're
saying that they're not sure if the
people who have had this or have the
antibodies are going to be immune
doesn't that an undermine the whole
argument behind vaccination exactly and
and you know that is the own so the only
criteria of vaccination is do you
develop an antibody it's propaganda
masquerading as science this isn't
science no if you make an antibody I've
heard things like well the antibody
testing says and what an IgG means that
antibody family means a past infection
and that would help us to say that this
virus has been in this country a lot
longer than they say it's been in this
country and then the second thing is if
you make an IgM antibody it's a recent
or an acute infection and then you're
not necessarily immune so you need to be
protected in a way if you've been
exposed recently so now I'm hearing this
I'm seeing in the press and seeing
people say oh the IgG antibody is a
later stage of disease and it's not a
later stage of disease at all it's it's
immunity so we're playing this word game
and we're using serology positive which
should say we've developed a herd
immunity and we've developed a
population that can go back to work
because in fact there
going to protect the rest of us in the
most vulnerable in in the in the u.s.
but now that that science is being
twisted to say it says something it
doesn't say the media continues to
report that we have no evidence that
patients who survived coronavirus have
immunity I think actually the truth is
the opposite we have no evidence that
survivors of coronavirus don't have
immunity and a great deal of evidence to
suggest that they do the question of
immunity is linked to health policy and
that workers who have gained immunity
can be a strong part of our economic
recovery the silver lining to so many
infections in the meat processing
industry is that a large portion of
these workers now have immunity those
workers should be reassured that they
likely won't get it again instead of
being alarmed by media reports that
there is no evidence of immunity you've
stated publicly that you'd bet at all
that survivors of coronavirus have some
form of immunity
can you help set the record straight
that the scientific record as it's being
accumulated is supportive that infection
with coronavirus likely leads to some
form of immunity
dr. pouching yep thank you for the
question Senator Paul yes you're correct
that I have said that given what we know
about the recovery from viruses such as
corona viruses in general or even any
infectious disease with very few
exceptions that when you have anybody
present it is very likely indicates a
degree of protection what are your
thoughts on lockdown as a method of
dealing with an upper respiratory virus
my thoughts are just I mean I I'm
horrified by it it's crazy because we're
not developing a natural immunity we're
making people sick that in in that we're
certainly we protect each other but if
people are healthy they don't spread
disease and that's why I mentioned how
many times in PCR you need to amplify
that RNA so a mask won't protect a 13
animal or piece of viral particle from
spreading through the mask but the mask
will amplify the viral reservoirs in the
per
and it's in so this is so the and the so
the lockdown is crazy because we don't
get a natural herd immunity but more
importantly the mitigation that should
have happened is interferon alpha and
hydroxychloroquine and and the serology
testing all of which costs nothing and
the healthy people can stay working
healthy people don't spread disease but
we are constantly told that this this is
we are asymptomatic carriers possibly
well that's not true
asymptomatic carriers doesn't mean
you're expressing virus and in the story
I always use with that shirt you're an
asymptomatic carrier we have there
millions of Americans right now who are
asymptomatic carriers of HIV and XM RVs
and many other viruses influenza viruses
because we've been infected before so
we're asymptomatic carriers but we're
not spreading disease if we're not sick
and and I say that and I can say that
with great confidence because back in
the 80s the only time I ever isolated
HIV from saliva were people on their
deathbed and when Frank Crosetti and
Bernie poised isolated adult t-cell
leukemia virus htlv-1 it was from the
sickest of people with adult t-cell
leukemia so when you're all the way at
the end of disease when you're when
you're so sick those are the people
expressing the virus so the the sick
people and the hospitals and it's called
nosocomial spread you know they should
be protected not with a mass but given
oxygen and the nursing staff should be
wearing the masks that so that the the
hospital staff isn't exposed to large
amounts of virus healthy people don't
spread disease so everything about the
lockdowns prevents natural herd immunity
from occurring and we it should have
never happened it should have been
everything should have been open
yesterday the day before last week
because the evidence
in this country by those serology tested
and by anecdotal data is many people at
least that I talked to every day say I
had that last November I had that last
summer oh yeah that was the worst cough
I ever get but but when you know when I
recovered you know they're they're
likely to obey antibodies and some of
those people we've looked at they're
actually neutralizing antibodies means
they can prevent infection in the most
susceptible so all of these measures
cost nothing nothing and and none of
this shut down need ever occur because
we could have protected people in the
beginning with a simple very low dose
type 1 interferon spray and and measures
of a hydroxychloroquine which has been
very safe w-h-o essential medicine for
70 years
can you just very briefly talk about
what what you've mentioned before co2
can you just quickly talk about what are
the dangers of wearing a mask if you are
asymptomatic if you're healthy yeah so
if you're if you're wearing a mask and
and you're healthy you're breathing in
your own you know bad air your own toxic
air so back and forth through the day
it's very stressful to breathe in toxic
air you're not getting enough of fresh
air and oxygen and and just the fact of
wearing the mask is stressful because
it's hard to do if you've never been a
professional doing that it you itch your
face you you know it's wet its moisture
it's actually amplifying it it's um it's
immune suppressive so you're suppressing
your damping down your own immune system
your type 1 interferons and you're
activating your dormant viruses so other
viruses from within yourself you're
activating such that now you're
amplifying them because you're wearing a
mask you're not protecting anyone and
and in fact everybody's totally stressed
out for for all of the reasons they
should be that you know the people
aren't intended
you know it's an upper respiratory
infection we've known for it
least a century just washing your hands
for the medical professionals and and
protecting yourself from spreading it to
healthy individuals healthy individuals
rarely spread these things on the
subject of mass you made the claim that
wearing them outside I suppose of acute
clinical situations is unhelpful that it
literally activates your own virus
you're you're getting sick you said from
your own reactivated coronavirus
expressions science the journal claims
to not know what you mean by that can
you explain in more detail what you're
suggesting yeah yeah so eight percent of
our of our genome is a viral and that is
all of the exposures that we've had and
we clear and we develop immune responses
to many are latent like herpes viruses
like those retroviruses they're dormant
there your immune system has imbalanced
they're not expressed if you put on a
mask and you're exercising and you're
not breathing air you're actually
breathing co2 you can become it's called
lactic acidosis so you become acid and
you're actually denying yourself oxygen
hypoxia and then some it's immune
suppressive it suppresses your very cd4
positive T cells that adaptive memory
immunity so you activate the dormant
because your memory was keeping those
silent and and this is just this isn't
new this isn't just me saying it this is
this is basic immunology and they know
it activate latent viruses they cause
disease and the mask is immune
suppressive and and that that's that's
clear I don't deny that Tsarskoe v2
exists and is potentially a pathogenic
more pathogenic virus to the susceptible
but the people that were liberally
called Cove in nineteen without the
accurate test if you haven't made an
antibody if you haven't zero converge
according to your immune system you
haven't been exposed RNA in your nose is
not exposure that's why the PCR test is
a bad one 80% of them were false
positive I can make that little piece of
virus and pick out thousands of microbes
out of your nasal passage that's why you
have an immune system so people were
sick because anybody that went in with a
fever or coughing were called covin 19
and notice how we don't have influenza
this year so it's it's known that the
influenza vaccine over the last few
years hasn't worked it's not the right
strain whatever you want to say but the
government again says go get that
vaccine anyway and it's the vaccinated
in two recent papers that are coming out
that get the flu and you shed that virus
so the vaccinating or shedding other
upper respiratory infections and you get
a respirator respiratory infection was
called covin 19and and yes this novel
coronavirus there's no question it's a
novel coronavirus
if it got out really the only driving
force to send it through a hundred and
ninety countries in a matter of months
in you know is is through sick people or
the vaccinated because they're shedding
other types of viruses to cripple the
immune system so we do know that in
Italy in January of 2019 they got that
four component for influenza virus
vaccine which had never been used before
and those vaccines do kill the
susceptible and they do carry corona
viruses and you would register as
positive for the corona virus and
possibly the novel coronavirus because
again the vero the the bureau east six
cell line was transported between Fort
Detrick and
on China and North Carolina and other
places in the world because that's the
cell line they we grow our our polio
vaccines our other vaccines and that's
the one they use to grow these
coronaviruses so there's not just one
virus somewhere and we know there are
many strains and we're seeing those
mutations in some countries where we're
different susceptibilities and different
environmental conditions you know so
pollution
cigarette smoking high blood pressure
diabetes being overweight all of those
things are risk factors now those are
the people getting the most severely
people with other inflammatory diseases
and that makes sense because
inflammation the flame is that cytokine
storm so it's like you took that SARS
Kove - virus and it was throwing
gasoline on a fire
if you throw gasoline on a healthy 20
year old or on the grass out there
nothing happens because they don't have
that fire but Jen that little trigger is
what we tend to say is the straw that
broke the camel's back again my
husband's got COPD and he's a chronic
obstructive pulmonary disease and he's
81 years old so so he's the one that is
at risk every year of an upper
respiratory infection his his COPD was
driven by a bacterial infection he got
as a young man and so but we always
protect him and the one thing we don't
do since I met him is we never vaccinate
him because you don't give somebody
who's at risk of an upper respiratory
infection driving a disease another
upper respiratory infection and that's
what the vaccine strategy is that's why
there's nothing about any of the
candidate back scenes except for the one
I described earlier and that's why they
never worked because when you inject the
blueprint the RNA or DNA of that virus
or you use I I heard it said oh let's
just repurpose our polio vaccines I mean
a horror of Horrors I mean this it
there's nothing that makes sense in
anything
it's happening on a level and it really
has nothing to do with with the
administration in any way because Tony
Fauci stood next to Obama with Ebola of
14 Zika is 17 you know Bill Curbishley
anthrax you know Bill Clinton a you know
swine flu bird flu pig flu what are
those they're zoonosis they're another
animal virus that becomes an in a virus
could be corona virus could be an
influenza virus are they are they you
know more quickly evolved man made man
evolved though no sees those other ones
are they are they you know
xenotransplantation as well
well they well could be but they never
ended up being much of anything in the
population because we never we never we
never took these kind of ridiculous
draconian measures before so we didn't
lock down everything in fact that the
best story is you know for for what
we're proposing and and many doctors
around the world good old-fashioned
medicine and nutrition with you know
that that our FDA and our CDC are
stopping us from doing the vitamin C the
zinc the various nutritional products
that we that we know work if we did
those then we would stop the evolution
of the viruses and and it gets to a can
of worms we probably don't want to get
to because the FDA stopped the
production of interferons for the use of
preventing zoonosis of coronaviruses
from animals 40 years ago so we could
have and what do we do to our animals oh
we vaccinate them so there's an awful
lot going on here but the fact of the
matter is this is 40 years this isn't
one administration and and this is this
is 40 years of a practice that's
literally been controlled by an industry
that has an interest in money and
and you know Tony pouchy at the helm
you know frightening if you will
presidents and populations that the next
big pandemic is going to wipe out the
world like the Spanish flu of 1918